Ford V8 in a Subaru BRZ

"Fred (FreddsterExprs)" (freddsterexprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:03 • Filed to: None

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I guess that solves the power problem once and for all.

HammerheadFistpunch > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:05

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strange choice. I mean I guess "LS" is just too common an answer, but the the Ford is physically larger and heavier making packaging difficult. I guess they just have just had one handy.

Sweet Trav > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:06

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They put the wrong V8 in it.

LSX > Coyote.

BeaterGT > HammerheadFistpunch 12/26/2014 at 12:07

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Yea especially because now he'll(assuming) have to field all the "Why not an LS?" questions.

Sweet Trav > HammerheadFistpunch 12/26/2014 at 12:08

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Coyote is about the same as an LS in weight, but it is a much physically bigger engine.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 12:11

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Do you know if that's the case for the aluminum bore? The aluminum bore Coyote is a good bit lighter than the normal one, but the idea of course makes me cringe.

Chris McMays > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:12

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Whoa.

AutoSavant > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:22

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Just thinking about changing the spark plugs on that thing makes my knuckles bleed.

Sweet Trav > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/26/2014 at 12:22

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The LS7 weighs 444lbs. I think that the Coyote is +/- 10lbs of it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 12:29

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Sounds right, for the normal Coyote. I think the aluminum bore one is -30 lb or some such.

DoYouEvenShift > HammerheadFistpunch 12/26/2014 at 12:30

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I was gonna say haha. That thing is bigger than a big block. Looks huge in there.

Tekamul > HammerheadFistpunch 12/26/2014 at 12:31

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OHC4LYFE

I don't know, that's my only guess

DoYouEvenShift > AutoSavant 12/26/2014 at 12:32

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Its actually not too bad. Theyre right under those blue covers.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 12:33

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WE DON'T NEED TO EXTEND TO YOUR KIND, V8 COMMIE. /cane shake

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > AutoSavant 12/26/2014 at 12:33

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I'm 150% sure it is easier now than it was stock.

daender > AutoSavant 12/26/2014 at 12:33

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Huh?

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > BeaterGT 12/26/2014 at 12:34

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The powerband and redline capabilities.

DoYouEvenShift > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:34

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Tekamul > AutoSavant 12/26/2014 at 12:35

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Have you tried it on a boxer? This Coyote actually looks preferable.

Sweet Trav > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/26/2014 at 12:39

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http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_det…

Engine weight for Aluminum coyote is 444lbs according to FORD.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c6-z06-…

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthr…

LS7 weight gets a bit murky, as i cant find any "official" GM sources but its somewhere around 390lbs without the Flywheel, or 440 with.

Milky > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 12:41

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For that much power I'd rather haz turbo.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 12:44

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Gotcha. I think I'd seen numbers for the Coyote aluminum and linered somewhere without flywheel. All is clear.

Sweet Trav > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 12/26/2014 at 12:45

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not that you cant make power out of Mod Motor.

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/jon-kaase…

But its easier, smaller and more reliable with an LSX

Sweet Trav > DoYouEvenShift 12/26/2014 at 12:47

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main reason why i dislike the Coyote, too damned big.

DoYouEvenShift > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 12:52

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Agreed. If it was at least 6.0+ liters it would get a pass....maybe...

Sweet Trav > DoYouEvenShift 12/26/2014 at 12:58

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it's not the displacement, its the bore. when they designed the engine, they make the bore spacing too small, so they are limited to like a 3.937 in bore max. Even the old 302 could have 4.0 inch plus bores. the problem is that these small bores ruin the best atribute of the mod motor, a strong bottom end and the over-head cam valve train stability to allow it to hit 8k no problem. it just cant breathe well up at the top end. it took the mod motor 12 years to be a contender and it took a blower to do it, N/A it took until it was made a 5.0l again. I generally just say that the Ford Mod Motor is an inherently flawed design.

The LS motor can be bored up to 4.185 inches in LSX block form. while it may not have the fancy overhead cam tech of the mod motor, the heads flow better at high RPM because of the bore size.

Its the same reason you don't build up a 307 or 305 small block chevy, but the 302 Chevy was a monster.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:01

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There's a reason why everything is getting LS swaps and not Coyote swaps.

Sweet Trav > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 13:02

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greatest performance engine ever made, the small block chevy

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/26/2014 at 13:05

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you mean 500 extra RPM? Big whoop. LS7 redlines at 7k. The LS7 has a much fatter power band than the Coyote and puts it to shame when making torque.

DoYouEvenShift > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:10

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LS has a bore center of 4.4" just like the 1st gen sbc. Like you said allows for a large bore per cylinder and large valves with minimal shrouding.

Im not sure what the coyotes bore center and max bores are.

What you mentioned reminds me of the modular 5.4 engine. Large stroke small bore, under square. Limits rpm capability obviously. So it makes it hard to take advantage of higher flowing cylinder heads at higher rpms. I could be wrong, but Ive heard some 5.4 GT500 people say they limit rpms to low 6000s at higher power levels. However at that point the blower is doing most of the work anyways.

But I guess my point was that if the motors displacement was bigger, it would get a pass for being physically huge.

this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 13:15

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Not enough power. Needs giant blower. And e85. And nitrous. And also a turbo. Because combo charging. Needs at leassst 1000 hp.

Sincerely, the Internet.

PS: also needs MOAR lowarr.

Sweet Trav > DoYouEvenShift 12/26/2014 at 13:17

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I'm OK with giant bore short, stroke engines. look at the old Chevy 409 and 348. with ancient and backwards head designs they made some pretty crazy power.

This was also a problem with the LT5, due to machining reasons they were stuck with 4.4 inch bore centers, and they wanted bigger bores to take care of the OHC design.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:20

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A. The Coyote doesn't take a lot to hit well over 8k reliably.

B. I realize the LS makes great low down power. That's great in things that are heavy-ish or you just want to use a set of back tires every trip to the store, but making the engine work for power is more fun for some of us depending on the vehicular situation. Plus, it makes it more daily drive-able, because when are you really going to need 400+ ft lbs of torque.

Funktheduck > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:23

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Me thinks you may be a bit biased.

Sweet Trav > Funktheduck 12/26/2014 at 13:29

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Objectively, its a better engine. simpler, lighter, smaller.

The Ford 427 SOHC is actually probably my favorite motor of all time. but it revved high enough and had a big enough bore to justify the high revving nature of the engine. 657 hp (SAE Gross) at 8000 RPM. in 1962.

cnessel27 > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 13:29

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Because the coyote is a great little secret. I think ford may have finally gotten it right with the new 5.0, and I've seen used truck 5.0s for $1200-$1500 and they can make some serious power on its stock internals. Also twin independent cam shafts are pretty awesome and my shop haven't really touched a mustang/truck 5.0 for any major mechanical failure.

Sweet Trav > cnessel27 12/26/2014 at 13:31

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What the rear diffs that keep exploding?

Funktheduck > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:31

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It'd fit just fine in my truck.

DoYouEvenShift > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:31

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Agreed. Im also a fan of big bore/smal stroke engine. The new Copo motors are also an example. They use an LSX block. Im not too sure on the specifics. But its a large bore short stroke, comes out to 5.3 liter I think. And a 4.0 whipple. Not sure what peak hp/rpm is but I know its high.

Sweet Trav > DoYouEvenShift 12/26/2014 at 13:34

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I'm planning on building a 328 cube LSX, 6.0L block with a 4.8l crank and rods to spin to the moon, and possibly turbo charge.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata 12/26/2014 at 13:35

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Rocketbunny bro!

cnessel27 > cnessel27 12/26/2014 at 13:36

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Hasn't* really

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/26/2014 at 13:38

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Why make power at 8k? its just more stress that possibility of failure not to mention while it will rev that high, it wont make much more power up that high because of the small bore. the inerrant flaw in the mod motor. You're FAR better of keeping the engine down below 6500 and shoving boost down it to take advantage of the damn near indestructible bottom end of the mod motor.

And if you're complaining about too much power down low, you just need to gear it properly

cnessel27 > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:44

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I don't know any thing about diffs exploding, I'm just referring to the 5.0 engine, not the rest of the drive train. What model are you referring to?

Sweet Trav > cnessel27 12/26/2014 at 13:46

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5.0L 2011-2013 Mustangs. It's a pretty common problem.

Justin Hughes > Fred (FreddsterExprs) 12/26/2014 at 13:50

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I hope that by the time my BRZ is old, worn out, and fully depreciated, the path to a V8 swap will be as well researched and traveled as that path is for a Miata today.

It would get rid of the crickets, too.

DoYouEvenShift > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:58

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I was thinking about this other day too. If my math was correct( was on a long drive doing it in my head). A 4.125 inch bore with a 4.8 crank works out to 5.7

A little more expensive though since you need an LS7 or LSX block for that bore size.

cnessel27 > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 13:59

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Well I can't say I have any experience with that diff issue, I mostly work on F/E-250 on up. I would say that's a testament to the power the engine is making.

Sweet Trav > DoYouEvenShift 12/26/2014 at 14:31

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Yeah its correct. 349.28 inches cubed

Sweet Trav > cnessel27 12/26/2014 at 14:32

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IIRC it had to with improperly set backlash.

my friend is a ford service tech and was telling me about how I don't want a Mustang

1337HPMustang > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 14:57

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I'd like to step in and say the 5.0, while it may have a harder time fitting into most engine bays in any swap (looks utterly massive in that brz), is as robust a platform for performance as any LS, and a competition modular engine can do what an LSX can for the same price... in a mustang. It's just a different flavor of V8 performance. /Fordfanboyranting

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 14:59

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Some people like power up high, I mean who buys a Ferrari for it's low end torque? Most of the greatest sports cars in the world have almost no low end torque, it just isn't as fun. Low end drone just gets old after a while.

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/26/2014 at 15:10

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LOL

Luckily for you:

Ignorance is temporary stupidity is forever.

The Z06 will destroy damned near everything on a road or a track. only your purpose built track toys are the ones to out pace it.

Who buys a Ferrari? Fools, and status obsessed brand whores. AKA people who know nothing about truly fast cars.

Sweet Trav > 1337HPMustang 12/26/2014 at 15:22

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I respectfully disagree.

It's an inherently flawed engine for N/A use.

Bore spacing is too close together, bore is too small, it was a non competitor until 2003 when they threw a blower on it. it wasn't until 2011, 20 years after it came on the market that it was an N/A competitor. And even then the lack of low end torque despite the massive nearly 4 inch stroke is startling.

With a blower it can make some good power, and the Cobra blocks are beautiful over engineered pieces of equipment, BUT in N/A form, I'll take an LS motor every day of the week and twice on Sundays, Hell, I'd take a late model windsor V8 with fuel injection over a Mod Motor.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 15:22

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People with money, which usually is linked with intelligence, not just Viagra. And will wipe the floor with anything for what, 2, maybe 3 laps until it de-rates? Or is that just to keep it exploding like C&D's LT1, oh wait, 2 LT1's. You'd have to be a fool to still trust GM's snake oil.

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/26/2014 at 15:36

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The LT1's that failed are pre-production engines.

As for the Z06 losing power, these engines A. are still in break in, B. All forced induction engines pull timing to prevent detonation. C. we have seen 0 Dyno data to prove this, or even how much power has been lost. D Even at its "reduced" power output it will still run with most of the highest end vehicles, if the standard Stingray is any example.

And then there's the z/28 camaro that outpaces every other track toy including the GT-R, 911, and even the Z51 optioned Corvette Stingray.

The more you speak the more you show your ignorance.

1337HPMustang > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 15:51

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I think we've actually had this conversation before lol. I was talking about the coyote in particular. Anyway, I don't know if we're talking stock for stock, or what, but a few companies working on coyote-based engines can do amazing things similar to the aftermarket lsx's. MMR in particular makes the engines for some crazy modular mustang drag race cars. The stock engine itself can handle ridiculous boost. They're great.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 12/26/2014 at 15:53

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Last comment, DROPPED VALVES. The OHV petrol engine, while having advantages, is getting a bit long in the tooth. There is a good reason they are being phased out by everybody else. If Chrysler still sticks with it, maybe there is a sign. OHC engines are just better. They are more reliable, they are smoother, you can get more power out of less displacement, etc. Sure, they may be more expensive to fix, but I will gladly take that disadvantage. It isn't ignorance, it's being from a family that A. Worked for GM, and still make jokes about all the work they didn't have to do, and B. Have owned exclusively GM products, until the past couple of trouble free years. We've had over 20 GM products, and only one didn't experience a major failure. I would buy a pre-2000 GM in a heartbeat, because there is nothing out there that is cheaper to buy/fix. They used to make great, simple vehicles, but the only way you could convince me to own a new GM is if you pay for it. Times have changed, and I know loyalty is heard to break, but being fast isn't all there is to being a good car. I will gladly admit that a good 90+% of what Toyota sells is terrible, but at least they are reliable.

AutoSavant > daender 12/26/2014 at 21:33

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Wow, I had no idea! I've only changed them on a 1998 Mustang Cobra. It was not fun. This makes it much better.